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The New York court’s recent ruling to overturn Harvey Weinstein’s 2020 rape conviction has caused a wave of shock and sadness among supporters of the #MeToo movement. Weinstein remains jailed for rape in Los Angeles, but the New York ruling still raises questions about justice for sexual assault survivors. Amna Nawaz discussed those considerations with Anita Hill.
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Amna Nawaz:
The New York court’s recent ruling to overturn Harvey Weinstein’s 2020 rape conviction has sparked a wave of surprise and sadness among MeToo advocates.
The 72-year-old former movie mogul remains in pretrial detention and is serving a 16-year criminal sentence for rape in Los Angeles. But New York’s ruling still raises questions about justice for survivors of sexual assault.
To get a sense of all this, I’m now joined by Anita Hill, president and chairman of the Hollywood Commission, founded in 2017 to fight abuse in the entertainment industry. She is a professor of law and social policy at Brandeis University.
Professor Hill, welcome. Thank you for us.
Anita Hill, Brandeis University:
Thank you for having me.
Amna Nawaz:
So, as you know, this New York court ruling cited errors in allowing testimony on allegations of sexual assault that were not part of the offender’s case.
But what was your reaction when you heard this first decision?
Anita Colline:
Well, the initial decision, for me, shocking and, of course, disappointing.
I think prosecutors did a wonderful job of seeking to contextualize the conversation, the processes, and the understanding of criminal terms like intent and moderate doubt. And I’m disappointed, but I also know that this isn’t the last case we find ourselves in. listen.
And in fact, I’m glad that prosecutors are saying that: telling the public that they’re going to retry this case. How they will do it, I don’t know what the strategy will be. I don’t know. I’m not a prosecutor.
But since some evidence has been excluded, I think they want to have a strategy related to additional evidence that gives jurors context and tells them how to interpret the law on sexual assault, if that evidence comes from other victims who are not. It comes from experts.
We want that evidence.
Amna Nawaz:
Mmmm.
It may not be the last case, as you pointed out, but it is actually a historical case. I mean, Harvey Weinstein was one of the most prominent and toughest men in the industry to be credibly accused and then convicted, what we call this. Me Too Movement.
Are you afraid that the annulment of this resolution will set back the motion one way or the other?
Anita Colline:
I think that can slow down the movement one way or another. But I’d like to talk now about other people who might not show up, who might, in fact, be too vulnerable to do so.
And what we don’t know – we have to realize – is that there is a sure point of vulnerability that any victim will face when they have to go through a criminal court. I don’t know, I don’t know where the motion is going. after that.
But I feel encouraged because I see that there is a plea. I think there’s outrage. And out of this outrage can be born a new power in the movement. Instead of pushing it back, it could just push us and push us even harder than it has in the last six years.
Amna Nawaz:
Let’s talk about the last six years.
As you know, the spotlight has been on some of the most prominent celebrities who have been involved in the movement. However, more broadly, as we know, women who are sexually harassed or assaulted don’t necessarily do so through some of the most prominent celebrities. or other tough people in America. This happens in their lives.
As you know, the statistics speak for themselves. According to the National Resource Center on Sexual Violence, one in five people in their lifetime is the victim of attempted rape or attempted rape. More than 80 percent report being sexually harassed or assaulted during their lifetime.
You talked about the vulnerability of women who get ahead. Do you think there may be a chilling effect, i. e. that women would be less likely to get ahead if, like Harvey Weinstein, he wasn’t even held liable in this case?
Anita Colline:
Well, I’m sure some women would probably think it’s just not worth the threat to come forward.
But I think we’ve been through those periods before. And we’ve noticed that they do: other people mobilize, show up, even if the odds stack against them. I think we, as a society, want to reflect on the fact that this trial has taken place.
And on some level, the case has been won and it’s possible that there will just be an attempt to try again, that it will be withdrawn, and that there will simply be a verdict that supports Harvey Weinstein. But let’s not say it took dozens and dozens of women to get here.
And I don’t think they’re going to turn around and stop showing up after they’ve come as far as we have.
Amna Nawaz:
What do you think of the current MeToo movement? I mean, is there any indicator you can take a look at that tells you how far we’ve come or what difference it’s made?
Anita Colline:
Well, absolutely.
You know, you talked about me chairing the Hollywood Commission and I’m the chairman and chairman of the Hollywood Commission. We have conducted research, now 3 investigations, since we existed, in the last six years. I found that other people wanted to know more about this topic. They wanted to acknowledge it.
People who worked in our entertainment workplaces were looking for information on how they could register a complaint in certain cases. But, more often, they were looking to know how they could replace their workplace. They were looking for training, training of spectators, for them to be a component of the solution to the challenge in the workplace.
That’s why I think where we’re headed is toward greater awareness that can lead to greater accountability. And that’s why there’s been movement. There are more desires to be made, as we want to replace our processes to keep up with this realization.
And some employers are offering more data to their staff and the staff in their workforce. But, again, we’re not there yet. And I don’t think it would be fair to think that we can triumph over a challenge that lasts centuries, and indeed, generations in this fledgling industry, in six years.
So we’ll continue to do the work. And I think at this point I can say with some confidence that we can count on the people in our sectors to step up and make the change, because that’s the kind of expertise they need. They need a kind of experience where other people aren’t sexually harassed or abused.
And they need a place where they can be part of a solution to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Amna Nawaz:
She is Anita Hill, chair of the Hollywood Commission and a professor of social policy at Brandeis University.
Professor Hill, thank you for coming with us.
Anita Colline:
Thank you.
Amna Nawaz is a co-anchor for PBS NewsHour.
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